So I posted this video yesterday:
When I made this video, I genuinely did not think there’d be anything controversial about it. I will even continue the assumption now and say that if you actually watch it in the entirety, you, too, would not reach the conclusion that it’s trying to be anti-male. Nor will you find it laced with any ulterior motive of gender politics.
Heck, now in retrospect, I probably could have titled the video “Tao Te Ching & the Divine Feminine.” Right? It’s just that I have a complicated relationship with the concept of “divine feminine” hence I went with “feminist metaphysics.”
Within hours of its posting, I received the following comments:
This blog post starts with my reaction to the above responses, but then I’ll go off on a tangent to share some unfiltered ramblings with respect to Eurocentric Taoism and cultural appropriation.
Thought experiment: If I had made a video titled “Tarot and Feminist Metaphysics,” do you think it would have received the same immediate random backlash? Now I kinda wish I had made such a video before posting this just to see what would have happened and compare. Dangit.
My assumption would be no, it would not receive the comments you see above. Why not? A couple of data points leads me to that assumption. When I post tarot videos, my demographics are 90% female, 10% male (self-reported). When I post videos on Taoism, it’s anywhere between 50/50 to only 30% female, 70% male. And then generally speaking I have this impression of seeing more feminist-leaning conversations happening among tarot readers and rarely do those conversations get perceived as controversial.
I also checked out old discussion threads on Aeclectic, keyword search feminist and feminism. Positive characterizations of the MotherPeace Tarot as coming from a feminist perspective came up. Likewise for Shining Tribe Tarot, always general praise for the feminist perspective being represented. Commenters self-identifying as men would join in the conversations supportively and be encouraging of more feminist-leaning tarot decks. Discussions and debate turned on whether a particular deck was actually “feminist” or not but never discouraging of feminism in general. It’d just be “oh, I don’t know if that’s more feminist than it is simply feminine…” like that. Literally the “worst” comment I could find was “Why would you want an all-female (or, for that matter, all-male) deck?” And I don’t even necessarily consider that a bad comment. It just expressed a personal preference. The commenter didn’t go nuts like the YouTube comments I showed above. A commenter would declare, “I am a radical feminist” and no one seemed to even bat an eye.
Also, I used to publish legal research and commentary in peer-reviewed law journals on feminist jurisprudence, critical race theory from a feminist perspective, and intersectional feminism, and would receive positive feedback. I can’t even recall any men taking issue with my writings. In fact, you know who were the biggest champions of my publications, sharing them, writing their own articles citing my works? Men. Specifically Asian and Asian American men. But that was also half a lifetime ago. Maybe the social climate has changed since then?
Seeing those comments as the first responses to a video I made on a topic near and dear to my heart really jolted me, because I wasn’t expecting it.
My gut reaction to reading those comments? “Well now I don’t want to share with you anything else I had planned to share with you.”
All this happened at the heels of me still trying to process a few discussion threads I regrettably stumbled across. (Now we get to the “tangent” part.)
Here’s one I saved because I contemplated doing a video on the subject (but now I won’t be, so let’s talk about it here). The original post presented the question, “Do Taoists believe in gods, or does it depend on the specific school/sect?”
Declarations such as “Whenever you think ‘Taoism is…’ you have missed the mark” are humorously illustrative of basic Taoist philosophy — it’s not an untrue statement before it was uttered aloud, but the act of uttering it aloud makes it misleading.
The thread continues:
The Eurocentric assumption of Taoism is that it’s only a philosophy, and there are no gods in Taoism. Meanwhile, the assumption is that Buddhism is “all the gods.”
It fascinates me that the Asian/Eastern assumption is the polar opposite. If you ask your average Asian person, they’d make the assumption that Buddhism is not about god worship, whereas it’s Taoism that’s about “all the gods.”
I would not opine that either of the two perspectives (“it’s philosophy only” vs. “gods, magic, and fortune-telling”) are 100% accurate. I’m just amused by how two sides can look at the same thing and come away with totally opposite and conflicting observations.
Plus, my short answer would be it depends on who you ask. I do think the majority of lay Asian practitioners in both camps will engage in what looks like deity worship, and you’ll certainly find lay Buddhists who approach Buddhas and bodhisattvas as personal sky gods who answer prayers, just as you will in Taoism.
And yet equally in both traditions you’ll find native practitioners who take a more philosophical and esoteric approach to the concept of deity and Buddhas.
I’d make the case that there is a general consensus that both traditions “meet you where you are.” So in both cases, it’s perfectly “right” to believe in personal sky gods or to approach it as a philosophy of life.
What irks me, though, is how extremely certain non-Asians can get with their claims of understanding Asian traditions. Where are they getting their confidence?
What irks me is when a non-Asian is not mindful of how they are characterizing what they like about Asian culture and what they don’t. Stripping the religiosity from Taoism, plucking up only its philosophical principles, and then claiming that Taoism is only philosophy carries with it an air of arrogance. To Asians, it feels like you are looking down at us. You take what cannot be separated from indigenous Asian religiosity, separate it anyway, and then repackage the philosophy in ways that suit a Christianized audience.
I also couldn’t help but notice how ethnically segregated Taoist discussion groups are online. You’ve got the non-Asians (mostly white) forming their own Taoist discussion groups with only a few straggler Asians here and there, and when those straggler Asians chime in, they often get shot down or told they’re wrong.
And then you’ve got the Asian-only Taoist discussion groups where most of the posts are in Chinese. There may or may not be a few straggler non-Asians, though to be fair, straggler non-Asians in Asian-majority Taoist groups tend to be respectful and kind. (Thank you and kudos!)
Taoist discussion forums that are predominantly white opt for minimalist inkbrush paintings, fortune cookie proverbs, lots of qi gong and martial arts, and never speaking straight – let’s use as much circular speak as possible to sound like Laozi.
Meanwhile the Taoist discussion forums that are predominantly Asian look and vibe like what I’m used to – lots of color, more is more, extravagant ceremony, talismans and colorful images of gods galore.
Libra me, of course, falls somewhere in between those two extremes.
So why this post? Help talk me off my ledge, please.
One remark in particular that I recently stumbled across got under my skin. I wish I was zen and big-hearted enough to not care, but it got my blood boiling and made me think I should pack up and cease sharing any more facets of esoteric Buddhism or Taoist mysticism to the English-speaking public. Highlighted in yellow is what got to me.
It’s one of those “this is why we can’t have nice things” moments. It justifies marginalized communities locking the gates and declaring that our practices are hereinafter closed.
Most disappointingly of all, personally, it proves that the majority AAPI stance on cultural appropriation (in advocacy of closed cultural traditions) is right.
And I was wrong.
Am I doing more harm than good to my own AAPI community? Shitballs. Have I been unbearably naive?
Seeing what non-Asians are saying about Asian traditions – with so much arrogance, too – really made me stop and wonder. Have those who’ve been advocating for all marginalized traditions to be closed practices — are they the ones who’ve been right all along?
My current feelings of frustration and disappointment result from an aggregate of events. Another one of those events was when a well-known Taoist author, a white man, publicly criticized a well-known Taoist author, an Asian woman, presenting her oeuvre of works in a negative light, basically accusing her of having a false take on Taoist philosophy. The subtext, of course, is that his take is the correct one. I’ve long admired the works of that particular white male Taoist author and I don’t necessarily disagree with his critiques of that particular author’s writings, an author who just happens to be Asian and female. There was just something about the way he presented the critique that didn’t sit right with me, like he wasn’t mindful and empathetic of the optics of what he was doing.
From pillars in the western occult community, I have been seeing more and more of this sentiment that it’s okay to use the occult technology and mystical practices from other cultural traditions without buying in to that culture’s religious beliefs and systems.
I really don’t know how I feel about that.
I will tell you what the optics are, however. When you say something like that out loud, it sounds like you are saying my culture’s religious beliefs are superstitions that you are too intelligent to buy in to. But my culture’s spiritual practices are free for your taking. If you like it, you can take. And then you will just ignore the part you don’t like, but that part you don’t like also happens to be the most important part of it all to us native practitioners– you are implying that our gods are not worthy of your acknowledgment, but the spiritual practices tried and true that enhance your power you can and will exploit. Do you know what that feels like to hear? Especially when it comes from the most visible and notable pillars of the Western occult community?
benebell wen 
“Seeing what non-Asians are saying about Asian traditions – with so much arrogance, too – really made me stop and wonder. Have those who’ve been advocating for all marginalized traditions to be closed practices — are they the ones who’ve been right all along?”
I want to say something as the “European majority” here. I see the same comments you saw here and wonder about some of the same things – to me, there always was a bigger divide between European and Asian cultures because we got to completely different conclusions what for example philosophy and religion even are. And since we have such different views on even fundamental terminology, it forces the serious student to be open-minded from the get-go.
The unfortunate truth is that many are not. It’s simply much easier to see that many Golden Dawn members visited Asian countries, copied some contents of some Asian philosophical schools, and assume that these short visits gained them such a grand insight that their own tradition now reflects all the world’s philosophies – which, if you even just write it out, sounds as ridiculous as the assumption truly is.
But I think that’s where cultural exchange can help reach those that are interested in the topics and would otherwise only get the Golden Dawn’s rewritten version. The people who angered you would also not listen to the idea that this philosophy might be a closed practice, since they have their Europeanized version.
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Where’s the cultural exchange when Chinese chicks become westernized feminists? LOL
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The atmosphere in the world right now suggests that commentators can be “outraged” about anything… people comment with arrogance and superiority on matters they have little real personal knowledge, and seem to be, for the most part, regurgitating recycled opinions; yet on matters that require genuine action and intervention, there is silence. Your content is amazing; there are a great many angry people in the world who need to vent, without thinking, sadly, it is the zeitgeist of our times.
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I’m White unfortunately. I’m not perfect. Although some might say I’m Latina/Hispanic although I think that’s a British (and derived heritage like US) classification as most people from the centre of America and South America are either Native Americans or mixed Native American with mostly Spanish heritage, and Portuguese, Italian, and in small occurrences with other European countries heritage. I’m a Spanish woman who speaks English because I had to migrate to the UK and I’ve been living here for 20 years. I’d be lost without your kindly shared knowledge of the occult in Eastern Asia(at least to me and most likely to White Europeans). And to be honest your erudition in all kinds of knowledge. I’m in awe of what you know and share and the clarity it brings to my thinking, mysticism, and philosophy. I don’t mention religion because I completely reject it in my life. But knowing of any religion or philosophy or anything that guides people in life or attempts to explain our world and beyond it is of interest to me. I happen to love that you discuss feminism and I have my issues to with the concept of the divine feminine especially the one many people have but even the denomination. It sounds like many people aren’t able to break off patriarchal gender roles and gender expectations and other rigid structures in their thinking. I wish I could understand Chinese, but I don’t. I can’t speak it either. Some men aren’t incapable to know that they don’t know. Some English speaking men and especially some White men aren’t able to comprehend their culture isn’t all that is and holds validity in equal measure. Again some men aren’t able to break off their hierarchical ideas. And most of all these men are deluded about their knowledge or ability for understanding anything that isn’t their own experience of life and admit to their part of accountability and responsibility. In any case, please accept my deep gratitude for all you share and do. I truly appreciate it. It makes my life so much better, richer, and complete. I’d respect if you didn’t continue to do it. And I’d be filled with joy if you continue to do it. Thank you, Benebell
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I also have a problem, it’s the word Eurocentric. I’m European, I’m a descendant of colonial folk, i can’t help who my ancestors were. I notice a lot of Americans use the term Eurocentric to refer to thinking that stems from the bad (old?) days of patriarchal, white male entitlement. However, Europe too is alive now. And American culture has infiltrated in our lives with boundless consumerism and capitalist world domination. If this serves me right for being European, I need not feel sorry for German people having to live with a Nazi past – but I do. Thing is, those Germans live less than a hundred km away. Our Dutch border with them has such loops in it that I cross into their land driving North automatically. Something ‘Americans’ will apparently never need to think of.
So what I think is, we all need more nuance. If we’re all constantly threatened by words – ‘feminist’, ‘eurocentric’, ‘masculine’ will we ever figure it out? Then again, i feel one person can’t be nuanced on behalf of another. Or teach how to be.
Just my thoughts.
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Wow wow wow that second comment?! People (men) are just out here writing stuff like that and thinking it’s ok? I mean all of them are ridiculous but that one needs to be flagged somewhere.
I’m glad you’ve been talked back from the ledge, but also I don’t think anyone would blame you if one day it did become too much and you wanted to just slam down the shutters. You provide something really wonderful that is a privilege for English speakers to get to consume and it wouldn’t reflect badly on you to revoke that privilege and access.
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I think many are missing the point when Bell writes about HER experience. I dont see this as an attack on ALL European descendents. She is simply telling you her experience with a certain type of people. If it was you that posted, then yes, she’s talking about you. If not, I implore you to check what baises you have and why what she said triggered you again. Bell is sharing her beautiful culture. For an Asian American with no other way to get these lessons, it matters more than Bell will even know. It saves lives, as corny as it sounds. It helps us misplaced and alone find our footing and understanding of ourselves. The people who got made fun of for looking different but didn’t t have anything to be proud about being Chinese descendent before finding Bell’s work. This is something European descendants may not understand because of their privileges. No one is blaming that on the person, but not educating yourself or speaking through the privilege is when it gets frustrating.
Us displaced Asian Americans need an English speaking teacher and not just another outsider reading a book and becoming an expert. We needed a practitioner, not just someone who’s heard the stories but doesn’t believe. We needed Bell.
She should not have to host a dissertation on racial and gender theories for the masses because of their own guilty conscience. It’s unfortunate she gets discouraged doing this amazing work because of fragile masculinity and people who feel they have something to prove online instead of just absorbing the knowledge and putting it to work. If you don’t agree with something online, I really wish people would learn to unpack why they’re upset instead of lashing out on creators. The create content that may not always be for you. Move along and find something you do like and leave it for aomeone else to enjoy. Most of the time people who comment such nasty things aren’t even creators who put themselves out there, by choice might I add. It’s not easy being constantly scrutinized and judged. Were lucky people are brave enough just to provide some education or entertainment. Kindness would do everyone some good and I hate Bell has to go through this. She doesn’t want idolized but dangit if I’m not a huge fan nonetheless. People don’t understand that she changes lives for someone with a scared and alone little Asian girl inside. That is her great work in my opinion.
Andrea
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Hi Bell,
if you share knowledge there will always be those who misuse that knowledge or pretend to know better than anybody else. But there are also the others. Just because they are more silent doesn’t mean they are not there, listening.
I grew up with learning that Buddhism was a philosophy and Daoism was a philosophy, too. However, my personal experience aligns with your statement that there can be veneration of gods in both. I believe that is a rather personal decision made by every individual and also influenced by the customs you grew up with.
Heck, there are so many different ways to live and interpret Christianity, either. Just because two people identify themselves as Christian doesn’t mean they need to have the slightest agreement on the definition and customs of their belief.
Take that hate speech as what it is. I mean, some even seem to mix up feminism with laws that are meant to protect underage. That such laws are not a one fits all solution might be a matter of discussion, but doesn’t fit in the topic of feminism in the first place.
That the very video that started the discussion about feminism isn’t even about feminism as we perceive it today, but about religious views and customs that derived from a neolithic matriarchal culture, is quite a different thing.
By the way, most cultures in neolithic times were rather matriarchal. But only little have survived in cultural memory as much as the beliefs/gods/customs/knowledge of Chinese Shang dynasty.
Ironical enough, my mum had that extremist feminist phase when I was little. And when I first came into contact with esoteric elements of Daoism, I learned from her that it should actually be yang as female and yin as male and that the other way round was adopted to subdue women. No worries, I’ve learned soon enough (through some awkward moments) that this is indeed wrong and simply discarded it.
When learning about different cultures and religions it always helps to keep an open mind. It’s not bad if you learned something that does not align with what you experience or observe in real life. But rather than sticking to what you did learn in the first place, also try to learn from those experiences and observations.
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As for the discussion about “Eurocentric”… Well, I guess it’s the same as us, Europeans, talking about the “Americans” – actually meaning US citizens by that. Which freaks out many folks from South America (especially Brazil), for they feel neglected. And it’s true: America is way more than just the US!
However, please also consider that the generalized term “Americans” is often used in not so flattering context. It doesn’t hurt to be neglected when the talk is about negative cliche.
But us, Europeans, might also reconsider talking about any form of cliche, in the first place.
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I’m sorry you’ve had to face this. They are basically mansplaining your own cultural traditions to you 😱 I think it has more to do with that general male arrogance than about the traditions themselves. It could’ve been on any topic really. Personally I think people have no obligation to explain or open up their practices to outsiders if they don’t want to. I love Balinese traditional for example, but there are many things I cannot do or places I cannot enter and that’s fine. I only ever go where I’m invited. Much love to you and your work. And feminism is not a swear word!
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I’m disgusted by some of the messages you present in your blog and I think it takes a special brand of arrogance to think what they do. I am wading into Taoism because of you and my first impressions are that this will take years to grasp (and perhaps lifetimes to master) and even that’s not possible without immersing yourself in the culture and nature of China.
I also wanted to say that your audience doesn’t only consist of these types of people. I am a multi-racial person and 3 of the 6 races are from Asia. Among those three, Chinese is very prominent. I have not gotten what you’re passing on from my parents and your sharing your knowledge teaches me a bit about part of my heritage I’ve never connected with. It would be sad if another gate closed due to arrogant human behavior.
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I don’t think traumatized men had thought spiritual women were powerful enough to bother interfering with us. Now enough of us are figuring out and shedding enough of our conditioning to actually step into our power for real.
Women are learning how to make serious money, speak from our authority, and leave co-dependent relationships. We are learning to say no to sex with men who have no ability to hold space for our pain.
No one has the ability to deprive us of our sovereignty. Men don’t have some magic key they can hold back from us. Now that we know this, we can’t be stopped.
It’s just a matter of time. The waterfall will carry us over the brink. The change will pick up pace.
We’re so close to it being undeniable. What’s about to happen will make the summer of ‘69 look like a backyard kids birthday party.
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lol doesn’t much sound like equality. Sounds very much like you hate men. That’s modern feminism.
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Hello!
I appreciate your thoughtful, curious, and heartfelt research, musings, writings and videos! While I respect every choice you make to navigate your heart through this moment, I selfishly hope you won’t be silenced.
Some people choose not to understand and are so tied to their stance that their filters are welded on. They are barking in the dark. It won’t bring them clarity.
But there are others out here, too.
Would you believe I’ve only just learned of you, and it’s because of this moment? I’m sure I’m not alone.
A friend said “This happened. Have a look. She’s amazing and could use some support.” So I looked! I see others have come forward to share their appreciation now and I’m so glad.
I wish you hadn’t experienced this ugliness.
I’m happy you have expressed yourself in the world so that I can enjoy your thoughts and let them hang out and play with my own.
Thank you for sharing so genuinely. Big big BIG hugs to brave and beautiful you!
I wanted to share Brene Brown’s version of a quote (“man in the arena”) and found it embedded in a lovely talk on experiencing critics and ways to consider it. It’s useful to me, personally. While it doesn’t capture the important cultural questions you are asking yourself, perhaps you’ll find some useful tidbits here too. https://youtu.be/8-JXOnFOXQk?feature=shared
I wouldn’t have listened to it again except that I hunted for the quote for you! Thank you.
You are creating something beautiful in the world both through sharing your ideas and culture, and by modeling the courage to express these meaningful and thoughtful things.
You have critics in the cheap seats, daring nothing, LOUDLY. And you have cheering fans that see you, hear you, and think you’re fantastic.
That’s us! Hang out with us!!!!
With love,
Mary
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I am jumping out of my skin with frustration right now but I’m going to try and type calmly. First: please don’t stop sharing, Benebell. Your insights are too valuable and education is too important. I minored in religious studies in college and for whatever that’s worth, I will tell you that I learned much about Asian religion and philosophy, enough to recognize that you are the true expert. Regardless of your heritage, what you write and say is always spot on according to acedemics and more importantly Asian scholars. Duh of course. But there have always been pseudo intellectuals saying stupid crap because they read a book or took a class. As a white American it makes me cringe. This has been going on forever, but the internet has brought cringe to a new level of stupid. Reading the comments you showed in your post, my blood was boiling and yet it’s all so familiar. The internet experts. The pseudo intellectuals. They are morons. Anyone who would “correct” an Asian or Asian American about their own culture is a complete idiot, and a rude one at that. I feel bad because you put yourself out there and your faith, and then some keyboard warrior with a need for affirmation carelessly puts out this bs. You’re very brave to do what you do. I hope you keep doing it. 🙏✨
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If voices like yours are silenced by these loud, arrogant, and utterly stupid fools, then the loss to the rest of us who are quietly trying to learn and travel our own journeys will be devasting.
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The first two of those YouTube comments were definitely left by incels. I appreciate the work you put into this well thought out blog post, but those two idiots, I wouldn’t take seriously.
I mean. “Male sexuality is the attraction to teenagers”?
Tell me you’re a creep and sex offender without telling me you’re a creep and sex offender lmao.
Ew.
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Oh Benebell, I am so sorry you have gone through this.
As a white male I have learned so much from you and you have introduced me to what Taoism actually looks like in real life. I find it funny that whites can have the last say on how a religion is practiced when they have no experience of it in its homeland and how natives actually perform it. It is definitely a form of white superiority or even just ego in general.
Maybe closing down the doors is a good idea, because the thing with closed practices is that, to enter, you must leave your ego at the door and actually show that you are willing to do what it takes to learn and understand with respect and humility.
I know you’ve been against patreon but maybe look at it again by offering these lectures on it because those who actually wish to learn will pay for it to earn in it.
Your work and contribution is highly appreciated and you give so much for very little return.
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We found the cuck lol
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Those irksome comments that got under your skin, it was from the Borg. Like he assimilated an ethnic perspective and thinks it over. Bizarre.
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Tao Te Ching verse 6 reads:
“It is the woman, primal mother.
Her gateway is the root of heaven and earth.”
And I am male.
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Hi Benebell:
Tao Te Ching verse 6 reads: “It is the woman, primal mother. Her gateway is the root of heaven and earth.” And I am male.
-Bao Radcliffe
>
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sdf
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Let’s unpack the comment –”Male sexuality is the attraction to teenagers.”
Just, wow. If I’m getting it right, this man is saying that he believes that his authentic, adult man sexuality is and will always be aimed at teenagers. This means he is condemned to a life of longing for someone he cannot have.
No wonder he’s pissed. I am grieving to realize that the lies of Hollywood have been repeated so many times that some men have swallowed them whole. It’s not ok. No wonder we have incels.
The Monomyth Hero’s Journey leaves out the critical requirement for the male hero to integrate the feminine qualities that his culture has stripped him of. Jung called this the “anima” back in 1916, so it’s by no means a new concept.
Until we tell real hero and heroine stories, we will continue to have a society of emotional, sexual, and economic adolescents. They may have bank accounts, cars, and houses, but they will be in perpetual longing for that which capitalism promises but never delivers on.
It’s a far better business model for Disney and Hollywood to sell addictions than tell the truth, but it’s about to kill us all.
I wish I could tell this man that once he has stopped idolizing girls he will be attracted to powerful women. Those teenage girls don’t want the sex that he wants anyway. He’s stuck in some gross rape fantasy that (hopefully) is never going to play out in real life.
Powerful men are attracted to powerful women, full stop.
It’s no fun being powerless, longing, and abused by the very culture that disabled you in this way. They made you addicted and then used your addictions to control you.
For the love of all that is holy, let’s get the teenage boys who are stuck in the bodies of men the tools to grow up. They’re gonna love it more than they can imagine.
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@Benebell, please never stop sharing. I believe some people are just tired of these terms such as “feminist” or “environmentalist” because they are in the mainstream news so much. It’s the fatigue that some are experiencing and they lash out at others who use these words even when they are not associated with the negative behaviours portraited in mainstream media. It’s unfortunate that you become the target of such outlet of frustrations.
I consider myself lucky that if one day you decide to stop sharing in English and start sharing in Chinese I’d still be able to understand. Gosh, I’m learning French and Japanese just in case you may share in those languages too, 😂! So, continue sharing with us, who care about the content of your sharings more than which word you choose to use.
Language and words is a funny thing, it is the the best friend of communication and also its worst enemy. How do we use this sword, I can only say that everyone always has a choice.
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The one who claimed with casual arrogance that ‘spiritual’ people in the West had ‘absorbed’ Eastern philosophy and wisdom tradition, with the implication that it was somehow ‘theirs now’ are kidding themselves on. Moreover, it is not even remotely spiritual to make a statement like that.
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